628 posts    Identified fonts    Requests only

Posts by metaphasebrothel

Feb 14, 2013 at 20:10  [initial post]  Ethics of Similarity

What's you're opinion, morally, ethically, and/or legally about modifying a font like this:

Example 1: BlackJackRegular by TYPADELIC, (free):

and the same text contracted horizontally by 20%:

Example 2: LHF Sarah Script by Charles Borges de Oliveira, (commercial):

and the same text contracted horizontally by 40%:

Example 3: Microsoft system font Broadway:

and the 60% condensed version:

These were made quickly by copy/pasting text from MS Word to MS Paint, so parts of some letters are missing because they can't be selected in this manner.

So, suppose someone wanted to make a new font based on the character set of an existing font, significantly altered, but in a uniform way through an automated method.

There's no question that the basic design of the letters is identical, but the rendering of them is completely different. The weight might be changed significantly, (or not, the 'source' images could me modified further, to restore the original weight). All of the angles are different, but the connection points between letters are still the same, because the vertical alignment isn't changed. If we apply standard criteria for judging similarity, (location and number of vector nodes), these would be completely different. At the same time, however, the design is clearly recognizable as the intellectual property of someone else.

There are thousands of fonts that are more closely related to Helvetica, and who knows how many only a grunge filter removed from a system font.

Maybe this is something that would fall under the 'fair use' legal provision, if it is offered as a free font? Would it be different if glyphs from a commercial font were used? How different would the text have to be before it becomes a mutant, rather than a clone?

I've been working on a condensed version of a public domain typeface, which brought this situation to mind. It could be a good learning experience to modify an existing script before attempting an original one.

This is assuming that consent from the original designer has been neither sought nor received. It would be good etiquette to ask, but is it even needed?


Feb 14, 2013 at 01:53  [reply]  Help Please!

Thanks, rocamaco, that's exactly what I needed!

Feb 14, 2013 at 00:25  [initial post]  Help Please!

I would like to have .png images of the numbers from Shadowed Serif by James Fordyce, at 198 point size, (275% of 72 points), or a point size close to that. I want to redraw them for a new font I'm working on. I don't have a graphics program that can save font glyphs as images at larger than 48 points. Can someone help me with this? All ten digits in one large image would be OK, if that's easier.



LooneyTunerIan said  (view post)
You know, you're all just a bunch of donkey buttcracks. (And you know what another word for that is, but I'm not gonna say it.)

That's earned you a ten day ban.

Feb 13, 2013 at 00:17  [reply]  Which X do you like best?

Menhir said  (view post)
For me, it's the 1. Question of feeling. I prefere to have the same right limits for top and bottom with the serifs aligned at right.

The serifs in this design aren't meant to be aligned vertically on the right, nor the left. The ones on the bottom are supposed to be slightly wider than the ones on top.

My impression was that, in the third X, I may have made the upper left and right too small.

Here's a new graphic, with a fourth option, appended to the end:

It's very easy for me to make this kind of change. At this point, I like #4 best.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


daaams said  (view post)
sorry metaphasebrothel, i totally screwed your posts wile editing it to copy tthe BB Code. I replied in your field, and saved it.
I succeded to rollback my modifications, but it was a pain


There is NO reason why you should have needed to modify my post in the first place.

The list of questions is in the second half of the post. You could have selected that portion of my text, copied it, and pasted it into a reply window, before adding your answers.

If you wanted to keep the questions in Bold, you could have quoted me, (which would open a reply window), then selected and deleted the top half of my post, (along with the html quote tags), before adding your answers.

Either one of these tasks can be completed quickly and easily.

I don't understand why you would have chosen a different procedure that involved changing the text in my post. No wonder it didn't work.

Edited 2 times. Last edit on Feb 13, 2013 at 09:07 by drf_

If you have designed fonts hosted on Dafont, please copy/ paste the interview questions to a new window, and tell us about you:

How long have you been making fonts?

About 5½ years, since summer, 2007.

How long did you collect fonts before you made your first one?

About three years.

Do you do any other art/ graphic design, in addition to fonts?

No, not unless you count my source graphics for the fonts.

What fonts or designers inspired you most to start making fonts?

Unca Pale by PaleAle, Mysterious Voyage by Paul Lloyd, Lost World by Shrine of Isis, Manfred Klein.

What is your personal favorite, from among the fonts you've made?

BeautyMarks and KleinKarpets.

Who were your favorite designers before you made your first font?

David Kohne, Paul Lloyd, Dieter Steffmann

Who are your favorite designers on Dafont?

Pablo Impallari, Måns Grebäck, Jellyka Nerevan, Larry Yerkes/ Vigilante Typeface Corporation

What are some of your favorite fonts on Dafont?

Powerview, Darrian's Sexy Silhouettes, Amazigh Motifs

What are your favorite commercial designers/ foundries?

Alejandro Paul, Michael Hagemann/ Font Mesa, Rob Leuschke.

↵ What Themes of fonts interests you most?

Fancy Script, Dingbats.

Do you design all/some/none of your alphabets and/or dingbats?

I always redraw artwork or photos made by other people.

What parts of the font making process do you enjoy the most?

Drawing the source graphics, and recently, removing nodes in the font editor.

What parts of the process do you enjoy the least?

Determining the spacing between letters. Determining ascenders/ descenders.

What font themes would you like to see more of at Dafont?

Fancy scripts, dingbat heads of famous people.

What themes would you like to see less often?

Typewriter fonts, hand printing, and poorly connected cursive scripts.

What fonts do you use most often in your personal documents/ text?

Bookman Old Style Bold.

What software do you use to make your fonts?

MS Paint and ScanFont 3

How long does it take you to make a font?

Usually about 5-7 weeks.

What is your font making procedure?

I do image searches on multiple search engines and sites like Flickr to find source material. I resize/ and or crop the images I want to use, so they have a uniform height. I draw on top of the downloaded image in two colours, composed for black and white. I import the finished graphics into my font editor, and smooth the outlines.

Why do you make fonts?

To give back to the design community for having downloaded other people's fonts. As an outlet for creative urges. As a time consuming hobby that doesn't cost anything to do. To impress women at parties and in chat rooms.

What interesting type designs are you working on now?

King's Ransom, a ransom note font made of decorative letters from diverse sources:

What would you like to add?

People here should write more comments.


How long have you been making fonts?

How long did you collect fonts before you made your first one?

Do you do any other art/ graphic design, in addition to fonts?

What font or designer inspired you most to start making fonts?

What is your personal favorite, from among the fonts you've made?

Who were your favorite designers before you made your first font?

What are some of your favorite fonts and designers on Dafont?

What are your favorite commercial designers/ foundries?

What Themes of fonts interests you most?

Do you design all/some/none of your alphabets and/or dingbats?

What parts of the font making process do you enjoy the most?

What parts of the process do you enjoy the least?

What font themes would you like to see more of at Dafont?

What themes would you like to see less often?

What fonts do you use most often in your personal documents/ text?

What software do you use to make your fonts?

How long does it take you to make a font?

What is your font making procedure?

Why do you make fonts?

What interesting type designs are you working on now?

What would you like to add?

Edited 7 times. Last edit on Feb 12, 2013 at 10:11 by daaams

Feb 11, 2013 at 23:16  [initial post]  Which X do you like best?

I'm currently working on a Condensed weight of my font Outstanding.

I draw my font glyphs in bitmap, then edit the imported graphics. I made the source graphics for the condensed weight by shrinking the Regular weight horizontally to 80%, without changing the height. I then clean up the images in my font editor, (ScanFont 3).

Here is the X from the Regular weight, in Capitals and lower case small caps, and the equivalent glyph in caps for the Condensed weight:

The small caps X in the Regular weight is unmodified, other than to have the shadows removed.

So, I'm wondering what looks best from among my options for the small caps X in the Condensed weight. Because this weight has been artificially created with stretch/skew, it doesn't have to be faithful to an original design.

Here are my choices:

The first one is the same as the Capital, less the shadow.

In the second one, the serifs at lower left and upper right have been shortened.

In the third one, the serifs at upper left and lower right have been shortened, and the serif at upper right has been shortened further.

Which X do you like best, for the Condensed small caps?



zerodeluxe said  (view post)
Just found the email from John regarding Slice/MK Stencil:


I've been able to look into the matter, and the sad truth is that Manfred Klein was passing off one of Kate's fonts as his own. Like you said, it's not up on his site anymore, only third part font sites, so she is looking into getting that fixed.

I was provided the original hand drawn sketches of the fonts by Kate, and it looks like Sketch Rockwell is another ripoff. We are working to help resolve that issue as well.

Thanks to you, we will hopefully get the fonts credited properly and take down any copycats.

John Shaver"

Trouble is now, is he in on it...? And can we trust the other deals they have?

He lied to you, Ben. MK Stencil is still part of the Manfred Klein 2003 Archive at TypOasis,( which is still, for the most part, his home site, (his last releases were on his post 2007 home page,

This is the page link:

Feb 11, 2013 at 07:53  [reply]  Sex.

It looks like Lobster, with an ex ligature.

Identified font: Lobster

zerodeluxe said  (view post)
Yeah, but in one email from John, he stated 'Slice' was copied to make 'MK Stencil' and that she was looking into having it removed. I wanted to find out if this was still the case and which exactly she regards as her own original designs.

If she is now back-tracking then MyDesignDeals should really be refunding anyone who bought the bundles as they were mislead into thinking these were original.

I highly doubt that Manfred Klein ever modified someone else' font to make one of his own, considering that he had retired from a long career of type design before computers had mouses. He didn't even need to draw his alphabets on paper. He could just realize them directly from memory or from his imagination in his font editor.

I received an e-mail from Manfred Klein once. Unfortunately, his Internet presence ended before he had the chance to see my tribute font. He retired from typography to care for his wife, who was quite ill. I believe he may also have been suffering from symptoms of Alzheimer's Disease, based on information told to me by a third party who knew him well.

Edited on Feb 11, 2013 at 03:43 by metaphasebrothel

Feb 10, 2013 at 18:08  [reply]  HELP!

rosiereesd, the embedding setting for Bloody Impact is "Editing of the document is allowed".

Bloody Impact does not have a glyph for the apostrophe in its character map. The fact that the text defaulted to Times New Roman when you typed the apostrophe suggests to me that you were probably using the font with MS Word 2000 or 2003. The problems you had with the printing could likely be related to your attempt to use the nonexistent apostrophe. One other possibility is that you had the font open, but not installed when you tried to print your document. That would also allow you to see the font in an electronic document, but not be able to print the text. If the only character that printed was the Times New Roman apostrophe, that possibility would be more likely. I highly doubt that a computer virus is to blame.

You may also wish to send a private message to Jason Arthur of JibbaJabba Fonts - there's a 'Send a Private Message' link near the top of the page, on the details page for the font. He could probably better explain if you are able to do what you want to do, using that font. If there is a problem with the font, I'm sure he would want to know that, too, and as soon as possible. Sometimes fonts we make can behave differently on someone else's computer, usually for a logical reason, and often easily corrected, but we don't know about the problem, because we don't experience it ourselves.

drf_ said  (view post)
@metaphasebrothel : I would love to translate your #10 post in French, please don't hesitate to send me a PM if you haven't got any news about it in the next weeks.

It's the sort of translation that is best done NOT carefully. My post is prose, but it's not literature. The goal is not to reproduce the nuances of my writing style, as if one were translating Sartre to English, or Mark Twain to French. So many professional translators fall into that trap, when translating business form letters. It's more like how an interpreter works, when two people who don't understand each other converse orally, through a third party. It's not really that different from two people making fonts from the same poorly scanned .pdf of an old book.

I'm just curious about how the same opinions would be expressed, using the syntax of another language. To me, the difference between French and English is like the difference between wine and beer. French grammar follows a logic derived from Latin. English is easier to understand on a basic level, but harder to master, as so much of it is contradictory, and frequently incorrect technically, even in sources that ought to be reliable. The grammar in many English books, newspapers, and magazines is atrocious, but at the same time, easily understandable, because the same errors are made so often that the proper usage looks unusual.

Feb 10, 2013 at 16:47  [reply]  HELP!

rosiereesd, we can't really help you, until you tell us which font(s)s are affected, and the application in which you are using it/them.

The part about the printing problem probably relates to the embedding settings, as determined by the designer. That's what "Free for Personal Use" means, in many cases. Not 'buying a license is optional, and on an honour system', but actual restrictions built into the font, which allow you to see it in use before deciding if you want to buy a commercial license, but not being able to print, without having first purchased one.

Most of the demo fonts from The Scriptorium have those restrictions, and many others, I'm sure. Depending on the software used to make a font, the default setting for embedding instructions can be different, as well. For some fonts, the designer may, in fact, not know which settings they have used.

Edited on Feb 10, 2013 at 17:04 by metaphasebrothel

Is it possible he hasn't finished making the font yet? That could explain a character map, but no download links.

Billy hasn't had a new font on Dafont since June, 2011, (pijamas), after being quite a prolific designer for the previous few years. He's probably doing different things with his life right now. I know he was very involved with skateboards at one time. When somebody makes as many fonts as has has, it would be normal to expect him to have more than one project on the go at the same time. Maybe Backstab was never completed.

Edited on Feb 10, 2013 at 01:42 by metaphasebrothel

I'm impressed, koeiekat. I wasn't aware that you had a font with 50.000 plus downloads!

I'm sure the animal shelters you support are severely underfunded where you live, as they are here. They can do a lt of good with that.

Edited on Feb 10, 2013 at 09:22 by drf_

koeiekat said  (view post)
metaphasebrothel said  (view post)
... Bodoni himself did not design any fonts, because he died in 1813. ...

While I agree with metaphasebrothel's arguments in his post this line puzzeles me ... If Bodoni did not design the Bodoni then who did?

Bodoni designed the typefaces, either on paper, or for printing blocks. The people who digitalized his typefaces designed the fonts used for electronic printing.

Designing a typeface is like creating art. Designing fonts is more like technical drawing, where precision, rather than inspiration, is most important. Those who design both their typefaces and their fonts are both artists and architects.

Edited 2 times. Last edit on Feb 09, 2013 at 21:36 by metaphasebrothel

akasper, everyone who has one or more fonts hosted by Dafont will have a link at the top of each Dafont browser window called My Account. Click on this link, and a list of your fonts will appear, with download totals for the previous day, total downloads to date, and the number of comments made on your font. To the right of the name of each font, you'll see a link called update. Click the update link, and you'll be directed to a separate page of details and preferences about your font. You can update the license terms, add or change artwork, add or change the Note of the Author, etc. After making any changes, click the Submit button at the bottom, and the Dafont Webmaster will probably have your changes processed in 1-3 days.

I think you'll need to have a Paypal account if you want to use a Donationware license, as Dafont does not collect money on behalf of any of the designers showcased here. If you have a Paypal account, in the Note of the Author section, type Note to Webmaster:, and provide the details about your account. Updates are manually processed, so that information would not be displayed to others on the details page for your font.

If you're using a Free for Personal Use license, you should include a read me document with any future submissions, clearly stating the terms of use. For a font already uploaded where the license is being changed, you can state the terms in the Note of the Author section, including an e-mail address to which commercial use inquiries should be directed.

You should also keep in mind that, even though thousands of people may download your font for free, very few would but a license, or donate. My unscientific study comparing the relationship between downloads and font comments suggests that one comment per 80.000 downloads is about average. Donations and license purchases would be even less. claudeserieux who responded to you initially has almost 10 million downloads at Dafont, but I think he's only received about $100 in donations. Almost no one makes a significant income from Free for Personal Use fonts, so don't let that be your motive. Most of use do it for that one comment per 80.000 downloads!


Edited 2 times. Last edit on Feb 09, 2013 at 20:28 by metaphasebrothel

Feb 09, 2013 at 03:12  [initial post]  JeopardyI Font?

What font are they using for the answers on the game show Jeopardy!?



@zerodeluxe: I agree completely, after having had the chance to view Surf and Sugo side by side.

Off topic: From the illustrations on the Luc Devroye page, "her" font "Winter", appears to be a good choice for the Warner Brothers font that LooneyTunerian is trying to get other people to make for him for free in another thread in English forum. It doesn't look like his samples, but it looks more authentic, for what he wants to do. I hope he reads other forum threads besides the one in which he posts, or he might miss out on this:

Too bad he won't be able to find a download site, unless he googles better than the rest of us. Maybe if he wrote to her, she could tell him the font's real name?

@drf_: Could I interest you in translating my post #10 into French? I read the language fairly well, but I write it at a level somewhere between high school and babelfish, depending on whether I need to use verbs in the non present tenses. I would enjoy seeing a French interpretation of my prose. rocamaco could do the Spanish, and koeiekat could do it in Dutch, click language, and meow.

Edited 2 times. Last edit on Feb 09, 2013 at 01:16 by rocamaco

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